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Old 10-07-2008, 02:21 PM
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Post Aerodynamics

For about a month already I've been totally into car aerodynamics thing.
Well, to be more precise, my own car, Civic EK-shell. In my opinion, aerodynamics is one essential aspect of road/track racing. By that I don't want to make car better or faster in common sense, but to improve what I already have (the shell) and make it run "smoother" in that sense...I don't know how to explain it more clear, but I hope people on the same stage with the similar philosophy on this issue will understand me.

So. I would like to gather all the knowledge of yours, guys, in one place. I've heard that some of you have got familiarized themselves with automotive aerodynamics quite much. Brandon (Phunhaus), I've read somewhere here, even tried to design lips/diffusers of his own. But then probably got too lazy/busy to finish that rough project?..
Any info/comments/questions are to put over here, was it DIY (great), or links, or pictures...

Despite the items familiar to all of you (lips, wings etc.) there are more HC goodies on the market:
Front splitter:



Canards:



"Winglettes":



Rear splitter:





GT Wing:





That's not all, but pretty much what I'm interested in.
It'll take much time to get all those goodies, only J's wing is worth a fortune (i don't even need it now), but I am going to get there part by part.

Useful link
http://blackmarketmotorsports.com/Fo...b1d6e1bc468692

That's for an intro. See next post for more info on what I'm working on atm.

-Ilja
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Last edited by Greenergy; 10-07-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:24 PM
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The thing I would like to start my journey with would be a front splitter.
I am going to make it myself most likely. Like I read in one article ( http://specialprojectsms.com/index.php?categoryID=30 ) it's much more cheaper to produce the item yourself than buy a very expensive ready piece. It is to be made of a polywood covered with some resin or gelcoat.
The thing should look like that:



but i want to take it more "inside" of the front (I surely will cut the room for exhaust manifold in the center):



TO look like that:



BUT! The thing I want to ask you guys is which way to go of those two, and which one would be the most appropriate in my case. What's the difference between those two:
1. splitter and lip in same, with no room between. Like in pictures before.

2. splitter is lower than front bumper itself and is angle adjustable, like in here:


Also what are the best attachment points to put the splitter. And any ideas how to put it safely in there?
Like that?


Or it'd be better to get some mounting brackets (pictures of which you can see in the article mentioned above)

Discussion is open and all the ideas/thoughts are very welcome....
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...we should all learn to think like mr EGhatchattack, since all his opinions and tastes are gold.

Last edited by Greenergy; 10-07-2008 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:23 AM
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For a quick overview, well its kidna long actually check this out: Automotive Aerodynamics - Sport Compact Car Magazine


You should also know about these terms:
Gurney Flap: a flap that is added to the end of a wing, usually a ver small lip, than increases aerodynamic performance by a huge margin.

Bernoulli Effect: states that the pressure of a fluid (liguid or gas), decreases as the fluid (liquid or gas), flows faster.

Venturi Effect: Fluid speed increases when the fluid is forced through a narrow or restricted area. The increased speed results in a reduction in pressure. The underbody venturi is shaped to create a low pressure area between the road and chassis which creates downforce.

Vortex: When a fluid rotates around its own center, it is called a vortex. Turbulent flow is made up of many little vortices.

Ground Effects: Downforce created by an a low pressure area between the underbody and the ground, and downforce created by the front and rear wings.



1.
A rear diffuser, otherwise known as a venturi, isdesigned to create a low-pressure or vacuum area under the rear of the car using a physics principle known as the Venturi effect. In essence, a diffuser is like an air channel that is designed to accelerate the air out from underneath the back of the car and help to both minimize underbody wind turbulence and to create negative lift at the rear of the car.
Sooo......
If your car is not low enough, the diffusors are not gonna do anything. It will be a lot of wasted money. On top of that the sides have to closed up to. You cant just do diffusor and and front and have open sides, there is not gonna be any downforce.


2. Canards, Winglets = useless. Don't bother

3. Front lips. You only posted the flat kind, but there are many different kinds. I cant find any good links right now.

4. Wings: Check this: Gurney flap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wings should usually be at or near the roofline. Why cant really tell you haha.
Here is a link from Mitsubishi talking about the rear wing on the Evo 9
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf - i hope the link still works!
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:58 PM
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Canards aren't useless. I can understand how the winglets aren't as good as the canards, but they aren't useless.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:30 PM
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in for info
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark1 View Post
Canards aren't useless. I can understand how the winglets aren't as good as the canards, but they aren't useless.
without putting them to good use they are. They only make marginal differences compared to wings and splitters. More like the dot on the i.
especially like APR or something. They are by no means a necessity for almost any project. I would spend my money elsewhere FIRST.
Now for example you still dont have enough grip on the front then you go for it.
And remember, you drive a honda or similar and without extensive other suspension mods or power you still cannot get enough speed through through a turn.
While if you are good you can make all this stuff work at low speeds say 40, they wont show their full potential until you go much quicker and at that point you need to think of other stuff.

If you do any of it, make sure you have tires that can be made use of and make sure they are wide enough.
wouldnt make any sense to run nankang tires in stock size.

THis car won the redline competition. I means its reallly fast, but it doesnt use extensive winglets or canards at all.



now look at this car:
18x10x5 285 front and back.......


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Old 10-09-2008, 11:37 PM
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I get what your saying. It's the honda's your talking about the winglets/canards. They just aren't as fast as the evo's/subaru's/etc like this car!

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Old 10-10-2008, 05:34 AM
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yeah, thats what i meant. the Cyber Evo is of no comparison....
almost 6 years of R&D in that car
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:42 AM
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SCC had a goo dseries of articles about aerodynamics. the canards make a swirling "pocket" of air along the sides of the car. lemme see if i can find the stuff online. they used an R34 GT500 car iirc

Last edited by Nachtmensch; 10-10-2008 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:47 AM
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Part 1: Automotive Aerodynamics - Sport Compact Car Magazine

Part 2: Automotive Aerodynamics - Sport Compact Car Magazine


Last edited by Nachtmensch; 10-10-2008 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:01 AM
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yes, that's what i expect of this thread, discussion and new info. Thanks, Kevin and Andre!
I'm a bit busy right now, so can't write anything too long. But soon enough i'll put up some more Q's and explanations of my plans.
Keep it up and we'll finally get some tech thread full of useful info
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:11 PM
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I would like to add another great link with lots of good information collected http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...o_articles.zip

Be aware that some of the information is a lot more detailed using graphics and formulas. This collection is more for people who are actually interested in doing something on their car rather then general info.
The articles are mainly from Racecar Engineering Magazine.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:28 PM
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interesting stuff guys!
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:38 PM
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Varis look into the future technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...or_Aeronautics
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